Sadly, not only is Ecclesall Road, dangerous, it’s already half dead without a red route or 12 hour bus lane. It’s parking and heavy traffic that’s killing it. It’s just not a pleasant environment - I should know, I live on a side street just off it.
Just as a point of information, red routes are not just solid double red lines. There’s provision for disabled access and sections to allow deliveries.
Thanks Karin. Yes, as far as I am aware, there would be some sections of double red lines, some single and then also some provision for parking, disabled parking and loading. There is so much misinformation about this out there!
Your'strong evidence' that most people don't use cars to access shops and cafes etc. is based on a Berlin study! My niece works there. Excellent and cheap public transport and mostly flat terrain. Hardly a good comparison with Sheffield. Why don't you commission a survey from the businesses on Ecclesall and Abbeydale Roads? One of the likely reasons for Ecclesall Road losing its premium shops and restaurants is that it is most easily accessed by its local student population.
Thanks for the comment Elaine but everywhere that study is done they find the same result. In bike friendly Germany and bike averse North America and Australia. Hills can pose problems but E-bikes are becoming increasingly popular. Ecclesall Road is a pretty horrible place to be right now, for both drivers and pedestrians. Surely we can do better than that?
I was surprised to see there were tickets still available to the snooker, but they're the premium Century club tickets for £357 ! "Normal" tickets sell out almost instantly when put on sale after each year's tournament ends.
I did get to go last year for a tenth of that, a bit of a bucket list tick, and a brilliant experience I'd recommend. Great views, better than on the TV.
The best way to make Ecclesall Rd safer is to ban cycling on it.. Make cyclists use the back roads, Sharrow Vale etc. Also reduce congestion by getting rid of Hunter's Bar roundabout.. As for pedestrians, there's an abundance of crossings. Businesses need trade, red routes make that harder. That's why many shops don't open till 10am, when the bus lane disappears. Well done to the Council for listening to common sense. Makes a change.
Thanks for the comment Paul but the studies show that you get more trade if you make a road safer and nicer for pedestrians and cyclists. It seems completely obvious to me. You want to spend more time in a nicer environment. Ecclesall Road is an absolute nightmare to be a driver and a pedestrian. We have to be able to do better than that.
I have a love hate relationship with Ecclesall and Abbeydale Road. Love that they have thriving and interesting businesses, absolutely hate walking along them because of the crazy amounts of traffic.
Thanks Ben. Yes, my idea for doing something on the proposals came from a visit I made to Dyson Place a few weeks ago. There are so many nice places around there but the amount of traffic makes it a really unpleasant place to be.
I think this is a very difficult one. Pedestrianising shopping areas is mostly a great idea, but not quite a no-brainer. There is the unfortunate side effect of making the shops and facilities inaccessible for many disabled people who rely on cars/taxis to get them from A to B. Also, the link you provided with evidence that the vast majority of visitors don't come by car is based on a study from Berlin - where there is much more of a cycling culture than in Sheffield, maybe also because it's flat :) and the infrastructure for cyclists is superior.
Thanks Sue but I don't think anyone is suggesting we pedestrianise Ecclesall Road. The scheme that seems to have been abandoned would still allow people who need to park on Ecclesall Road to do so but would have stopped illegal parking, which as anyone who travels on Ecclesall and Abbeydale roads will know is rife. And yes, I appreciate that the study is from Berlin but everywhere in the world that had researched this finds the same result, from Europe to North America and Australia. I don't really see why Ecclesall Road should be so different than everywhere else?
If illegal parking is the issue then the current restrictions should be better policed. Red routes won't stop the idiots who stop on double yellow lines to collect takeaways etc. The council should try enforcing their own restrictions first before more regulation is brought in. I counted 45 illegally parked cars on the London Road stretch into town and only 12 on Ecclesall Road and that was between 5 and 6.30pm on Tuesday evening
Thanks Dan, yes, "pedestrianising" was a poor choice of word for the scheme!! I have to admit I only skimmed the article in my lunch hour. If studies have found the same elsewhere as Berlin, which is such a fantastic city for cycling / ambling / public transport, then that's great news (though I'm a bit surprised about North America). Perhaps the businesses that opposed the scheme should have got some hard facts and asked all their customers how they got there...
Safety should always be the first consideration, but I'm still not convinced disabled people wouldn't be worse off, even if special provisions are made. Some people have to park outside or very near their destination. A 12 hour bus lane would mean this isn't always possible.
Well, I don't know so much. Why are we discounting the views of business owners in such a cavalier fashion? Maybe they know something that we don't, for example, that it's the people with the cars who spend more of the money.
However, this is peripheral to my main point, which is that there is rarely any way back from these schemes if it turns out that they don't live up to their promise.
Moreover, what our city needs is immeasurably better public transport. May I repeat what I said a few weeks back: without this, but with regulations restricting access, it's all stick and no carrot.
I think this article would have benefited from more research into the actual incidents that have supposedly occurred and whether the road played any real part in the incident. The two recent deaths that I am aware of happened in the early hours when traffic would have been light and presumably had more to do with drunkenness/stupidity of pedestrians rather than the road being inherently dangerous. It’s also worth pointing out that in the statistics, Ecclesall Road may be getting tagged with incidents that actually occur on the notorious Moore St roundabout (for example The Star’s headline on Dan Walker’s accident is “Ecclesall Road roundabout Sheffield: Horror crash was exact spot where Dan Walker 'nearly died' this week”).
As a local resident, I generally supported the proposals in the consultation and tend to agree that the parking issue for shops is probably overblown. Ultimately though, I seriously doubt that the improvements would have made any difference to the volume of traffic on the road. It would hopefully have kept traffic moving a bit smoother, but the plans did not really do anything to resolve the biggest cause of congestion/tailbacks. If Sheffield Council were really serious about reducing congestion, they would be providing free/bus taxi collections to and from school and heavily fining any parent found dropping their children off in a car.
I realise that bikes and walking are a good idea but until we have cheap, clean,reliable transport with many ( not diminishing) routes then cars won't disappear. I'm disabled and can't use any of the above options. Please, please lobby for more carrot and you won't need the stick. Also, get the council to enforce the parking and travel restrictions they already have before imposing more. Why do you never mention this!!
"Studies show"is a cop out answer. Other studies show that the vast majority of businesses in the area don't want a red line lane.
It's more than completely obvious that many, many people use motor vehicles to visit the area.
As I previously said, cyclists have many alternative routes in the area, they don't have to use the main road. And pedestrians have numerous crossing points especially for them.
If parking is totally restricted the knock on effect will be even more fighting for car parking spaces in adjacent streets.
One thing people like you need to understand is this: However much Sheffield City Council, cycling enthusiasts and others want people to give up cars, IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN!! Just learn to live with it. Or move out to a quieter place, you must have known the situation before you moved in. It's like people moving in next to an airport, then complaining about aircraft noise.
Studies show is not a “cop out answer”, it’s literally the only sensible way to make policy. On the basis of data. Your belief is just based on what you reckon is true, which is a poor way to decide policy. I’m not a massive cycling person, I’m just someone who understands that the way we currently get around the city isn’t sustainable. And Ecclesall Road is horrible at the moment. Making it a nicer place to be would benefit walkers, cyclists and businesses.
Ecclesall Road and Abbeydale Road present a particular set of problems. Both are very busy commercial streets. In peak times they are main commuter routes; During the day they are used by people visiting shops, cafes etc. and by people travelling to and from the Peak District National Park. In the evening they become the city's playgrounds with people visiting bars and restaurants. They also carry a substantial amount of heavy trucks including the quarry trucks coming in from the Peak District. Meeting all these demands, along with use by buses and cycles is a challenge. Meanwhile part of the reason for the decline of public transport is congestion. The buses can’t get through the traffic, they get later and later and people start to give up on them. The bus companies tell us that they need priority for their services if they are going to get customers back. Meanwhile, the people who get in their cars find they might as well go to an out of town superstore where they can buy the same items more cheaply. The time I am most likely to use the shops at Banner Cross, for example, is while I am waiting for a bus.
Sadly, not only is Ecclesall Road, dangerous, it’s already half dead without a red route or 12 hour bus lane. It’s parking and heavy traffic that’s killing it. It’s just not a pleasant environment - I should know, I live on a side street just off it.
Just as a point of information, red routes are not just solid double red lines. There’s provision for disabled access and sections to allow deliveries.
Thanks Karin. Yes, as far as I am aware, there would be some sections of double red lines, some single and then also some provision for parking, disabled parking and loading. There is so much misinformation about this out there!
Your'strong evidence' that most people don't use cars to access shops and cafes etc. is based on a Berlin study! My niece works there. Excellent and cheap public transport and mostly flat terrain. Hardly a good comparison with Sheffield. Why don't you commission a survey from the businesses on Ecclesall and Abbeydale Roads? One of the likely reasons for Ecclesall Road losing its premium shops and restaurants is that it is most easily accessed by its local student population.
Thanks for the comment Elaine but everywhere that study is done they find the same result. In bike friendly Germany and bike averse North America and Australia. Hills can pose problems but E-bikes are becoming increasingly popular. Ecclesall Road is a pretty horrible place to be right now, for both drivers and pedestrians. Surely we can do better than that?
I was surprised to see there were tickets still available to the snooker, but they're the premium Century club tickets for £357 ! "Normal" tickets sell out almost instantly when put on sale after each year's tournament ends.
I did get to go last year for a tenth of that, a bit of a bucket list tick, and a brilliant experience I'd recommend. Great views, better than on the TV.
Sorry Martin. I didn’t realise the only tickets left were expensive box tickets. Apologies.
The best way to make Ecclesall Rd safer is to ban cycling on it.. Make cyclists use the back roads, Sharrow Vale etc. Also reduce congestion by getting rid of Hunter's Bar roundabout.. As for pedestrians, there's an abundance of crossings. Businesses need trade, red routes make that harder. That's why many shops don't open till 10am, when the bus lane disappears. Well done to the Council for listening to common sense. Makes a change.
Thanks for the comment Paul but the studies show that you get more trade if you make a road safer and nicer for pedestrians and cyclists. It seems completely obvious to me. You want to spend more time in a nicer environment. Ecclesall Road is an absolute nightmare to be a driver and a pedestrian. We have to be able to do better than that.
I have a love hate relationship with Ecclesall and Abbeydale Road. Love that they have thriving and interesting businesses, absolutely hate walking along them because of the crazy amounts of traffic.
Not that I have any bright ideas!
Thanks Ben. Yes, my idea for doing something on the proposals came from a visit I made to Dyson Place a few weeks ago. There are so many nice places around there but the amount of traffic makes it a really unpleasant place to be.
I think this is a very difficult one. Pedestrianising shopping areas is mostly a great idea, but not quite a no-brainer. There is the unfortunate side effect of making the shops and facilities inaccessible for many disabled people who rely on cars/taxis to get them from A to B. Also, the link you provided with evidence that the vast majority of visitors don't come by car is based on a study from Berlin - where there is much more of a cycling culture than in Sheffield, maybe also because it's flat :) and the infrastructure for cyclists is superior.
Thanks Sue but I don't think anyone is suggesting we pedestrianise Ecclesall Road. The scheme that seems to have been abandoned would still allow people who need to park on Ecclesall Road to do so but would have stopped illegal parking, which as anyone who travels on Ecclesall and Abbeydale roads will know is rife. And yes, I appreciate that the study is from Berlin but everywhere in the world that had researched this finds the same result, from Europe to North America and Australia. I don't really see why Ecclesall Road should be so different than everywhere else?
If illegal parking is the issue then the current restrictions should be better policed. Red routes won't stop the idiots who stop on double yellow lines to collect takeaways etc. The council should try enforcing their own restrictions first before more regulation is brought in. I counted 45 illegally parked cars on the London Road stretch into town and only 12 on Ecclesall Road and that was between 5 and 6.30pm on Tuesday evening
Thanks Dan, yes, "pedestrianising" was a poor choice of word for the scheme!! I have to admit I only skimmed the article in my lunch hour. If studies have found the same elsewhere as Berlin, which is such a fantastic city for cycling / ambling / public transport, then that's great news (though I'm a bit surprised about North America). Perhaps the businesses that opposed the scheme should have got some hard facts and asked all their customers how they got there...
Safety should always be the first consideration, but I'm still not convinced disabled people wouldn't be worse off, even if special provisions are made. Some people have to park outside or very near their destination. A 12 hour bus lane would mean this isn't always possible.
Well, I don't know so much. Why are we discounting the views of business owners in such a cavalier fashion? Maybe they know something that we don't, for example, that it's the people with the cars who spend more of the money.
However, this is peripheral to my main point, which is that there is rarely any way back from these schemes if it turns out that they don't live up to their promise.
Moreover, what our city needs is immeasurably better public transport. May I repeat what I said a few weeks back: without this, but with regulations restricting access, it's all stick and no carrot.
I think this article would have benefited from more research into the actual incidents that have supposedly occurred and whether the road played any real part in the incident. The two recent deaths that I am aware of happened in the early hours when traffic would have been light and presumably had more to do with drunkenness/stupidity of pedestrians rather than the road being inherently dangerous. It’s also worth pointing out that in the statistics, Ecclesall Road may be getting tagged with incidents that actually occur on the notorious Moore St roundabout (for example The Star’s headline on Dan Walker’s accident is “Ecclesall Road roundabout Sheffield: Horror crash was exact spot where Dan Walker 'nearly died' this week”).
As a local resident, I generally supported the proposals in the consultation and tend to agree that the parking issue for shops is probably overblown. Ultimately though, I seriously doubt that the improvements would have made any difference to the volume of traffic on the road. It would hopefully have kept traffic moving a bit smoother, but the plans did not really do anything to resolve the biggest cause of congestion/tailbacks. If Sheffield Council were really serious about reducing congestion, they would be providing free/bus taxi collections to and from school and heavily fining any parent found dropping their children off in a car.
I realise that bikes and walking are a good idea but until we have cheap, clean,reliable transport with many ( not diminishing) routes then cars won't disappear. I'm disabled and can't use any of the above options. Please, please lobby for more carrot and you won't need the stick. Also, get the council to enforce the parking and travel restrictions they already have before imposing more. Why do you never mention this!!
"Studies show"is a cop out answer. Other studies show that the vast majority of businesses in the area don't want a red line lane.
It's more than completely obvious that many, many people use motor vehicles to visit the area.
As I previously said, cyclists have many alternative routes in the area, they don't have to use the main road. And pedestrians have numerous crossing points especially for them.
If parking is totally restricted the knock on effect will be even more fighting for car parking spaces in adjacent streets.
One thing people like you need to understand is this: However much Sheffield City Council, cycling enthusiasts and others want people to give up cars, IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN!! Just learn to live with it. Or move out to a quieter place, you must have known the situation before you moved in. It's like people moving in next to an airport, then complaining about aircraft noise.
Studies show is not a “cop out answer”, it’s literally the only sensible way to make policy. On the basis of data. Your belief is just based on what you reckon is true, which is a poor way to decide policy. I’m not a massive cycling person, I’m just someone who understands that the way we currently get around the city isn’t sustainable. And Ecclesall Road is horrible at the moment. Making it a nicer place to be would benefit walkers, cyclists and businesses.
Ecclesall Road and Abbeydale Road present a particular set of problems. Both are very busy commercial streets. In peak times they are main commuter routes; During the day they are used by people visiting shops, cafes etc. and by people travelling to and from the Peak District National Park. In the evening they become the city's playgrounds with people visiting bars and restaurants. They also carry a substantial amount of heavy trucks including the quarry trucks coming in from the Peak District. Meeting all these demands, along with use by buses and cycles is a challenge. Meanwhile part of the reason for the decline of public transport is congestion. The buses can’t get through the traffic, they get later and later and people start to give up on them. The bus companies tell us that they need priority for their services if they are going to get customers back. Meanwhile, the people who get in their cars find they might as well go to an out of town superstore where they can buy the same items more cheaply. The time I am most likely to use the shops at Banner Cross, for example, is while I am waiting for a bus.