To operationalise Sheffield as 'an outdoor city' I suggest an 'Outdoor Hotel and Hostel' for those arriving by train, bus or bike, who want to explore the Peak District. Intergenerational and successful in many European cities.
Whatever happens on the site, we must make sure that the final 100m or so of the Porter Brook are improved. The Brook should be renaturalised, brought into public view and so on. This opportunity must not be missed.
Filling the hole? Bus stops please. Rail-bus connectivity is non-existent. I remember that the four-lane crossing and covered walkway to the Bus Station was once styled a Transportation Hub! It never was. Services to/from the Bus Station had been run down for years.
Maybe reinstate something like the No. 60, that seemed to run every 5-10 minutes through the city centre on its way up West Street to Fulwood(?). Problem. Pedestrianisation has moved city centre bus stops to the periphery, except for across the top of the Moor, but only one-way. Why not make Furnival Gate two-way and a proper bus Hub.
Good idea, to have buses stopping here! As I mentioned elsewhere, I get the bus into town rather than driving (or getting a lift), but if I’m getting the train, it’s a bit of a drag with luggage to get to the station from Arundel Gate.
The bus I get from Norton is the 1, which goes along Arundel Gate and then carries on northwards. A lot of buses seem to go along here rather than along Pond Street, where the bus station is. The bus station looks very large, and it looks like a lot of routes go there - but not the bus I get!
With porter brook running through the area this could make a very nice park. Perhaps with street food venders and regular markets. Why do we need another office block? The site as poor access and allowing vehicles parking would increase air pollution and congestion it’s Sheaf Street and the Taxis that are a big chunk of the Nitrogen Dioxide pollution but particulate matter is the main cause of ill health. Building another office block at this gateway to the city is very twentieth century and a private developer does not own the land great!let’s be creative
It could be left as open space although as it’s a brownfield site I would guess they are more likely to build something on it in order to reduce the need to build on greenfield sites. Whatever happens they need to sort out the pollution but how much longer will it be until we get electrification?
If the idea is a office block that would never be built in the green belt. What about congestion in the area come on Dan let’s be a bit adventurous do we have to build office blocks or student blocks in every space.
The station desperately needs better drop off and pick up facilities and better taxi access both in and out of the station. I get how this land may have been held for an HS2 station but, given that this won’t be happening and the owner is a Railway related company, we should now be given the station that the City deserves! At present we don’t need any more offices or flats. Help people to easily access the railway network!
I think we need better connectivity facilities, more offices, many more flats and a bigger, grander train station! So whatever happens to the site I will probably be both pleased and disappointed
The range of routes isn't all that great from the bus station. But I was referring more to the facilities of the train and bus station: unlike most city stations there's not lots of useful shops, no left luggage faculties, no immediately nearby hotels/hostels, no (electric) cycle or scooter hire, no clear maps or tourism information as a focal point outside... I love the vista of the train station but it lacks all sorts of things that you find in similar cities.
I think I did read something about the bus station in line for revelopment since it's a grim place and a waste of prime city centre space as it is, so something might be done there too?
Quite a number of bus routes do not go into the bus station - an example would be the 81/82 from Stannington & Hillsboro. I feel our public transport services could be much better integrated, which would improve accessibility, and then encourage more use. The current round of cuts to services really hasn't helped either and I think there needs to be a bit of a rethink of bus routes in the city centre. I like the idea of pedestrianised areas, but at the moment few buses serve the centre very well, there is usually a fair walk from the bus stop to where you want to go, often up hill!
I agree with the above comments about the train station. The square and water features are lovely but the road in/out is chaotic and sometimes dangerous, as taxis jostle for space with people dropping off/picking up family & friends. Creating a one-way system could help to alleviate the congestion. It might also be useful to separate taxis from other traffic and create a very short stay (10 mins max) pick up/drop off area. Bus stops would be ideal and might discourage people from driving or getting taxis. I regularly get the train and then the 52 bus home, but if it’s late then I get a taxi rather than walk up to the bus stop alone in the dark. Understand the need for flats/offices but more people living/working in the city will mean more demand on trains and more traffic -- so, thinking long term, sorting out the station should be a priority. We need to future-proof our public transport systems. A city the size of Sheffield should at the very least have a decent train station!
It seems like most people agree with you about the road links to the station but I think the vacant site is earmarked for development. Interesting that so many people think it’s not working properly at the moment though. Maybe it’s worth a story at some point in the future.
Yes, a further story would be great. The views of people who use the station on a regular basis should be taken into account I think. Thanks for this story — the Tribune is so helpful in enabling us to understand local issues.
The area around Castle gate and Wingate is a greater priority for development. There was apparently government money to develop the Sheffield castle site and plans were proposed but no sign of any work. The area is being ghettoised and an eyesore for any visitors staying at the hotel's there.
Thanks for your comment Lawrence. It;'s funny you should say that as we have a piece coming out on Thursday about Castlegate. That's where the Levelling Up money is being spent but the Sheaf Square development is owned by LCR, so there's no reason we can't do both.
It begger's belief that the minute drop off/pick up/taxi zone area is continually congested/overcrowded and has been for the past 20 years, yet here we have a domain space that could eliminate this congestion overnight.
It may be a little too late but surely it doesn't take a genius to work out the we have this major congestion every hour of every day and yet a massive area of domain land running bang next to the station!!!!!!!
I agree. I use the railways a lot (as a retiree not as a commuter) and the station is 10-15 minutes’ drive from our house. I get the bus there sometimes, depending on how much luggage I have, otherwise my husband drops me off.
The pick up/drop off area is really tight, and is shared with taxis. The road layout and tiny parking area mean that I walk some distance to meet my chauffeur-husband when I return (usually in the evenings), rather than subjecting him to the queues of annoyed drivers he would otherwise become one of!
It would be good to see the empty area used to alleviate this, but I feel bad suggesting this. I notice that the Porter Brook runs next to the vacant plot before vanishing underneath the station, so it would be lovely if this were taken advantage of to have a continental-type square with cafés, seating etc. plus some flats. I’m sure more office space isn’t necessary!
Someone much smarter than I am might be able to devise a combination of these….??
I agree too. The drop-off area, small short stay car park and taxi-rank are frequently clogged up, exacerbated by the conflicting movements in and out that often mean flows of traffic stopping and blocking other flows that cross them.
Trees especially, yes. A study last year showed that Sheffield was 54th in a list of green cities https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0276962. We have trees aplenty (although maybe not as many as we used to have 😟), but this was a survey of city centres. The grey-to-green initiative is excellent; having greenery around makes everyone happier and calmer - derelict areas have the opposite effect.
Sorry, not 54th - that was the cities surveyed in alphabetical order - doh!! But the conclusion is the same - there aren’t that many trees in our city centre.
Currently it is very difficult to pick up or drop anyone off at the railway station in Sheffield when it is busy. This is a real barrier to some people using the train and causes a terrible pollution hotspot with vehicles stuck in queues which can go all the way back along Cross Turner Street and Fornham Street out onto Suffolk Road where they also cause a potenatially dangerous situation with traffic switching lanes with no warning to get round the stationary traffic. However, next to this chaos is the large area this article talks about. If the council and the site owner's actually cared about the people of Sheffield and about making railways more accessible for a wider range of people they would take this opportunity to use this space to create a pick up/drop off area with the capacity to cope with the demand. At the same time access from buses could be improved. The area could be one which would be safe and which would cut the pollution caused by the slow moving and stationary traffic. They could create a more accessible station and use the rest of the space to extend the attractive space which exists for pedestrians in front of the station. Of course this won't happen because the council, network rail and the site owners do not want to create a more accessible rail network and better quality public spaces in the city, instead they want to build new structures which can create an income. An income for the private owners of those buildings and not to the benefit of the wider Sheffield community. This is the only opportunity to solve this severe limitation of Sheffield railway station, once the site is redeveloped the chaotic situation for drop pff/pick ups will be set in place to continue for years to come and will continue to discourage travel by train.
First, use it to fix the vehicle access to the station - ideally to separate taxi and non-taxi traffic (again!) and put in proper bike lane access; Second, open up the Porter Brook; Third, if we need a building (possibly elevated to solve 1 and 2) then something architecturally distinctive and functionally useful (hotel/office etc.) that joins people across the station-Showroom-university space. At the moment it just feels like a long walk...
Getting to the station with luggage is really only feasible by taxi or private car. Solving the traffic chaos at the station should be top priority for whatever happens with this land. It shouldn't be impossible to find a way to provide safe and easy access to the station for buses, taxis, cars, bikes and pedestrians. It should be possible to come up with something that has something for everyone. But it probably won't happen. Because it rarely does.
To operationalise Sheffield as 'an outdoor city' I suggest an 'Outdoor Hotel and Hostel' for those arriving by train, bus or bike, who want to explore the Peak District. Intergenerational and successful in many European cities.
Love it! What a fantastic idea.
Whatever happens on the site, we must make sure that the final 100m or so of the Porter Brook are improved. The Brook should be renaturalised, brought into public view and so on. This opportunity must not be missed.
I agree but knowing how strongly the Sheaf and Porter River Trust will argue for that with any developer, I’m sure they will get their way!
Filling the hole? Bus stops please. Rail-bus connectivity is non-existent. I remember that the four-lane crossing and covered walkway to the Bus Station was once styled a Transportation Hub! It never was. Services to/from the Bus Station had been run down for years.
Maybe reinstate something like the No. 60, that seemed to run every 5-10 minutes through the city centre on its way up West Street to Fulwood(?). Problem. Pedestrianisation has moved city centre bus stops to the periphery, except for across the top of the Moor, but only one-way. Why not make Furnival Gate two-way and a proper bus Hub.
Hear hear!
Good idea, to have buses stopping here! As I mentioned elsewhere, I get the bus into town rather than driving (or getting a lift), but if I’m getting the train, it’s a bit of a drag with luggage to get to the station from Arundel Gate.
Do most buses not stop at the bus station over the road? And if not, why not?
The bus I get from Norton is the 1, which goes along Arundel Gate and then carries on northwards. A lot of buses seem to go along here rather than along Pond Street, where the bus station is. The bus station looks very large, and it looks like a lot of routes go there - but not the bus I get!
With porter brook running through the area this could make a very nice park. Perhaps with street food venders and regular markets. Why do we need another office block? The site as poor access and allowing vehicles parking would increase air pollution and congestion it’s Sheaf Street and the Taxis that are a big chunk of the Nitrogen Dioxide pollution but particulate matter is the main cause of ill health. Building another office block at this gateway to the city is very twentieth century and a private developer does not own the land great!let’s be creative
It could be left as open space although as it’s a brownfield site I would guess they are more likely to build something on it in order to reduce the need to build on greenfield sites. Whatever happens they need to sort out the pollution but how much longer will it be until we get electrification?
If the idea is a office block that would never be built in the green belt. What about congestion in the area come on Dan let’s be a bit adventurous do we have to build office blocks or student blocks in every space.
The station desperately needs better drop off and pick up facilities and better taxi access both in and out of the station. I get how this land may have been held for an HS2 station but, given that this won’t be happening and the owner is a Railway related company, we should now be given the station that the City deserves! At present we don’t need any more offices or flats. Help people to easily access the railway network!
I think we need better connectivity facilities, more offices, many more flats and a bigger, grander train station! So whatever happens to the site I will probably be both pleased and disappointed
Is the bus station over the road not close enough? I though most buses stopped there but maybe I’m wrong.
The range of routes isn't all that great from the bus station. But I was referring more to the facilities of the train and bus station: unlike most city stations there's not lots of useful shops, no left luggage faculties, no immediately nearby hotels/hostels, no (electric) cycle or scooter hire, no clear maps or tourism information as a focal point outside... I love the vista of the train station but it lacks all sorts of things that you find in similar cities.
I think I did read something about the bus station in line for revelopment since it's a grim place and a waste of prime city centre space as it is, so something might be done there too?
On the plus side we do have a great secure bike storage hub! Incredibly important
Quite a number of bus routes do not go into the bus station - an example would be the 81/82 from Stannington & Hillsboro. I feel our public transport services could be much better integrated, which would improve accessibility, and then encourage more use. The current round of cuts to services really hasn't helped either and I think there needs to be a bit of a rethink of bus routes in the city centre. I like the idea of pedestrianised areas, but at the moment few buses serve the centre very well, there is usually a fair walk from the bus stop to where you want to go, often up hill!
I agree with the above comments about the train station. The square and water features are lovely but the road in/out is chaotic and sometimes dangerous, as taxis jostle for space with people dropping off/picking up family & friends. Creating a one-way system could help to alleviate the congestion. It might also be useful to separate taxis from other traffic and create a very short stay (10 mins max) pick up/drop off area. Bus stops would be ideal and might discourage people from driving or getting taxis. I regularly get the train and then the 52 bus home, but if it’s late then I get a taxi rather than walk up to the bus stop alone in the dark. Understand the need for flats/offices but more people living/working in the city will mean more demand on trains and more traffic -- so, thinking long term, sorting out the station should be a priority. We need to future-proof our public transport systems. A city the size of Sheffield should at the very least have a decent train station!
It seems like most people agree with you about the road links to the station but I think the vacant site is earmarked for development. Interesting that so many people think it’s not working properly at the moment though. Maybe it’s worth a story at some point in the future.
Yes, a further story would be great. The views of people who use the station on a regular basis should be taken into account I think. Thanks for this story — the Tribune is so helpful in enabling us to understand local issues.
The area around Castle gate and Wingate is a greater priority for development. There was apparently government money to develop the Sheffield castle site and plans were proposed but no sign of any work. The area is being ghettoised and an eyesore for any visitors staying at the hotel's there.
Thanks for your comment Lawrence. It;'s funny you should say that as we have a piece coming out on Thursday about Castlegate. That's where the Levelling Up money is being spent but the Sheaf Square development is owned by LCR, so there's no reason we can't do both.
It begger's belief that the minute drop off/pick up/taxi zone area is continually congested/overcrowded and has been for the past 20 years, yet here we have a domain space that could eliminate this congestion overnight.
It may be a little too late but surely it doesn't take a genius to work out the we have this major congestion every hour of every day and yet a massive area of domain land running bang next to the station!!!!!!!
God give me strength.............
I agree. I use the railways a lot (as a retiree not as a commuter) and the station is 10-15 minutes’ drive from our house. I get the bus there sometimes, depending on how much luggage I have, otherwise my husband drops me off.
The pick up/drop off area is really tight, and is shared with taxis. The road layout and tiny parking area mean that I walk some distance to meet my chauffeur-husband when I return (usually in the evenings), rather than subjecting him to the queues of annoyed drivers he would otherwise become one of!
It would be good to see the empty area used to alleviate this, but I feel bad suggesting this. I notice that the Porter Brook runs next to the vacant plot before vanishing underneath the station, so it would be lovely if this were taken advantage of to have a continental-type square with cafés, seating etc. plus some flats. I’m sure more office space isn’t necessary!
Someone much smarter than I am might be able to devise a combination of these….??
I agree too. The drop-off area, small short stay car park and taxi-rank are frequently clogged up, exacerbated by the conflicting movements in and out that often mean flows of traffic stopping and blocking other flows that cross them.
I also agree - improved traffic flow and a better environment around the river, especially with trees, could help with air quality.
Trees especially, yes. A study last year showed that Sheffield was 54th in a list of green cities https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0276962. We have trees aplenty (although maybe not as many as we used to have 😟), but this was a survey of city centres. The grey-to-green initiative is excellent; having greenery around makes everyone happier and calmer - derelict areas have the opposite effect.
Sorry, not 54th - that was the cities surveyed in alphabetical order - doh!! But the conclusion is the same - there aren’t that many trees in our city centre.
Currently it is very difficult to pick up or drop anyone off at the railway station in Sheffield when it is busy. This is a real barrier to some people using the train and causes a terrible pollution hotspot with vehicles stuck in queues which can go all the way back along Cross Turner Street and Fornham Street out onto Suffolk Road where they also cause a potenatially dangerous situation with traffic switching lanes with no warning to get round the stationary traffic. However, next to this chaos is the large area this article talks about. If the council and the site owner's actually cared about the people of Sheffield and about making railways more accessible for a wider range of people they would take this opportunity to use this space to create a pick up/drop off area with the capacity to cope with the demand. At the same time access from buses could be improved. The area could be one which would be safe and which would cut the pollution caused by the slow moving and stationary traffic. They could create a more accessible station and use the rest of the space to extend the attractive space which exists for pedestrians in front of the station. Of course this won't happen because the council, network rail and the site owners do not want to create a more accessible rail network and better quality public spaces in the city, instead they want to build new structures which can create an income. An income for the private owners of those buildings and not to the benefit of the wider Sheffield community. This is the only opportunity to solve this severe limitation of Sheffield railway station, once the site is redeveloped the chaotic situation for drop pff/pick ups will be set in place to continue for years to come and will continue to discourage travel by train.
First, use it to fix the vehicle access to the station - ideally to separate taxi and non-taxi traffic (again!) and put in proper bike lane access; Second, open up the Porter Brook; Third, if we need a building (possibly elevated to solve 1 and 2) then something architecturally distinctive and functionally useful (hotel/office etc.) that joins people across the station-Showroom-university space. At the moment it just feels like a long walk...
I don't know why they moved the taxi rank and cars together which caused the traffic jam. They used to be the other side of the entrance.
Getting to the station with luggage is really only feasible by taxi or private car. Solving the traffic chaos at the station should be top priority for whatever happens with this land. It shouldn't be impossible to find a way to provide safe and easy access to the station for buses, taxis, cars, bikes and pedestrians. It should be possible to come up with something that has something for everyone. But it probably won't happen. Because it rarely does.
Well whatever they do with the space, I hope it’s not the installation of something like the “McCabe Pyramid”. It looks awful in so many ways!!! 😧